We've got the journalism down, but I've got problems with our radio
Continuation of Current's interview with Bob Edwards, originally published in Current, May 25, 1998. [To first part.]
Current: What about the proportion of local to national? Stations insert weather, traffic, and local stuff.
Edwards: No. Morning Edition began as a modular program, on the premise that this was important.
So there's no ceiling.
Oh, you've got to get around and listen to some of these stations and what they do to us. In some places you're lucky to hear Bob. Well, I don't know if you're lucky to hear Bob, but you know what I mean -- a figure of speech. You're lucky to hear the national portion of Morning Edition. [Stations] create their own availabilities in addition to the ones that we designate.
What we had not anticipated, of course, was that they would be buying things to insert into Morning Edition. And buying them from our competition. Thatwas a blow. Because when we started Morning Edition, there was no PRI or even APR. There was no Marketplace. This was just not on the scope. We thought it would be all local and regional, maybe statewide networks. But Dr. Science, Stardate, Keillor, Marketplace -- all those [modules] are going into Morning Edition and they're being passed off as Morning Edition. Well, they're not Morning Edition. They're not produced here and they're not produced at the local station. So that is very upsetting.
Stations might see it as an autonomy issue.
Why would they not see it as trashing the name Morning Edition? [With inserts], it's not Morning Edition. It's like Pepsi getting inside the Coke bottle, and it's no longer the real thing.
A few stations, at least, are unhappy about the new emphasis in Morning Edition on business news.
That, too, is the result of competition. That goes back to Monitor Radio having the five o'clock slot, and stations using Marketplace within that. So we countered by going on at five to take that timeslot, and then we countered again by having business news so that, okay, you want business, take our business and not our competitors' business.
Stations are saying, "Well, this doesn't necessarily serve listeners. It was an underwriting decision, maybe it was a competitive decision."
Right. Then why are they taking Marketplace?
Can we talk about your daily schedule? Everyone says it's grueling. What makes it difficult -- the lack of sleep, the odd hours or adjusting between the weekends and weekdays?
All that. We are not biologically meant to do this. Nature, God, whatever is your pleasure, meant for us to go to bed after dinner like the farmers do, and get up with the chickens.
You're getting up with the owls.
I won't get used to it, it's 18-plus years. And I don't think anyone else gets used to it. I think I now hold the record nationally. There have been local people like Frank Harden who have done it longer than I have. But I think Jane Pauley had the national record of 14 years, and I passed her four years ago. But then they would arrive for makeup [just before the show]. They didn't do this "get up at one" business. They'd have the limo roll them in from Connecticut or wherever the hell they were.
And when do you go to bed?
Usually it's six or 6:30.
And you leave here about when?
Noon. I don't know if it's because I'm getting older, but there are several phenomena if I don't get enough sleep. Chest pains, very bad chest pains, which years ago I confused with possible coronary problems, and it wasn't. I guess it's in the muscles or some tissue in there that just throbs with pain. I've come to just really respect sleep. Sleep cures so many things -- physically, emotionally, psychologically. Sleep is magnificent.
I saw one of those awful PBS programs where the guy comes out and lectures and there are potted palms on the stage, and -- how do you describe this program? Do you know what I'm talking about?
They're called pledge specials.
They have hours and hours of these things. And there was this guy who was relatively entertaining. I don't know, it was my wife who was watching this, and he was talking about sleep. And he says the problem with sleep is that it can't do everything, and so you have to decide is it going to fix the hangover or grow hair. And you get enough of it, it will fix the hangover, I doubt if it will grow hair. But we have pills for that.
Did you read the excerpts from Garrison Keillor's book about the really sad-sack station manager who makes a speech at the PRC, which is so snoozy that there's the sound of Bob Edwards' head hitting the table?
[Laughs.] Boy, that was wonderful, that was wonderful. God love him. I do like Keillor.
You said there were several things that happen if you don't get enough sleep.
Yeah, um, there's the pain. There's the feeling of being drunk without having had the pleasure, without having tasted the booze. Dizziness, equilibrium, balance is a problem. It's like permanent jet lag. And you can get enough sleep and you'll still fall into this. Like the first two days of this week I had enough sleep, and then I hit Wednesday, yesterday, and found I was staggering around. This is no good. And imagine trying to think in that state. And do bright, informed interviews. And maybe that's what Greil Marcus heard, I don't know.
And you go on for a few years like that and you really need a break. When I did the book I took four months off, and I had no idea that I really needed that, not just to do the book but the break. And in those four months I completely forgot how hard this thing is, because when I came back it was whiplash.
Would you ever think about reapportioning your time so you would come in much closer to the beginning of the show and then have more time to plan the next show, right after the broadcast?
No. It's a news program. You have to prepare, you have to read in. That's what I do, I kind of read in, find out what's been going on while I've been asleep so I can be prepared to do interviews. Not just the ones that are scheduled but the things that just come up.
Morning is prime time. Morning is radio's prime time. And some of this is very self-serving. If I want to be in radio's prime time, then I've got to do what I've got to do to be here.
Do you like conducting live interviews?
I do. I didn't, once upon a time. There's a lot of pressure. You've got to think on your feet and be articulate, and you can't do it over again. But Red's responsible for [the change]. Red made me so much better a broadcaster than I was. Because it was live and because he loved throwing me curve balls. [Imitates the elderly Barber]: "Let's see what the young fellow's going to do with this." It amused him terribly. And I just had to adjust. I had to get used to doing things live and reacting to whatever he would do. And that just made me sharper, made me more attentive, made be a better ad-libber, more flexible.
Are there moments that stand out in your memory?
Once, we lost the backfeed -- that's how he heard us. He used to listen on the telephone, had the telephone to his ear and the microphone in front of him. We would hear him through the satellite. And I don't know if someone hung up the phone or what, but he could not hear me. And he figured it out immediately. And he said, [in Barber's Southern-gentleman accent] "Now Robert! I can't hear you, but I'll assume that I'm still on the air." And he filled four minutes. Just rambling on about Duke Snyder, Roy Campanella, whatever, and he had his stopwatch, so he knew when to wrap. He always left me 30 seconds at the end to say goodbye and wrap up the segment, and that's when he ended. "Well, Robert, that's it and now back to you." And my God, what a pro I'm working with! Not for nothing was this one of the pioneers of radio.
There are plans for a play based on the book? [Edwards wrote a book about his radio relationship with Red Barber, Fridays with Red.]
Didn't work. The producer and the writers turned it into Dodger nostalgia. It wasn't about Red and me, it wasn't about Morning Edition.
What about Tuesdays with Morrie?
You don't know about this? Where've you been? Okay, look. [Pulls a copy of his book, Fridays with Red out of his desk drawer and places it end-up on his desk.] I did a book, 1993. [Then he pulls out a second book, Tuesdays with Morrie, by Mitch Albom.] This man's a sports writer. He was clearly listening, wasn't he?
[On the bestseller list, Albom] is No. 1. He and Cokie are alternating No. 1, No. 2, and of course Frank McCourt.
And did you ever reach No. 1?
Oh, no, I didn't reach No. 25. I was never on the list.
Aww.
But you know what this is about? It's about a relationship between an older fellow, what was important in his life, his mentor, and a younger journalist. And in the end? The old guy dies. Sound familiar? Is this the story of my life? He took my idea, he all but took the title, and he's No. 1! And am I a public radio schlemiel or what?
It's about Morrie Schwartz, the author's college professor. But it has the same cover design and everything.
I heard a rumor that you were going to take on a weekly sports show in addition to Morning Edition, is that true?
That's at the whisper stage. Yeah, that is a faint whisper.
Your idea?
No, it's Jeffrey Dvorkin's idea.
Are you enthusiastic about it?
I am if I get the right person to produce it.
What would you call it?
I don't know. But I guarantee you this, it would be fun.
Would there be call-ins?
No. It would be host-driven and I would just do it for the good time. And I think if I'm having fun, the listener will be having fun.
Would you have to watch a lot of sports on videotape?
Yeah, I suppose I would.
And pick up on some sports that you probably don't pay any attention to now?
No, no, because why would I do those? I mean this would be much more of a Bob program than Morning Edition. But I do have some ideas about it. It's just so remote right now, it's just only being whispered. And maybe stations wouldn't even want it, who knows? But I'd like to give it a shot.
You make a lot of station visits and we wondered why you've made that a priority?
Several reasons. One, it's marketing. And like I told you, I don't feel there's nearly enough of that. It gets me out of here and into the countryside, beyond the Beltway. It's good politics, obviously. It helps the station and if the station's happy, then they're happy with me and I like them happy with me. And I get feedback from listeners to find out what they like, what they don't like. And if I'm just sitting in there every day talking to my engineer, I'd get very insulated.
You enjoy the interaction with listeners?
I do, I do. You know that's another thing that keeps me here, the audience. This is just a fabulous audience. These are very bright, involved people and this is not a passive audience. They're an audience that all those other programs want. They're doers. They have a pulse. If you're going to listen to a two-hour news program, you're somebody who cares about the world. You're not a dolt who needs to be cajoled into listening or tricked or gimmicked into listening. It's just a much sharper audience. And for that reason it's a challenge to get up and work for them everyday.
Outside link: Morning Edition's website.
Web page created June 8, 1998
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Related story: Despite their successes, Morning Edition and All Things Considered are periodically criticized for staleness;
some are tired of this gripe.